For anyone that's interested, here's a PDF file from Cefas, titled - "An assessment of the impact of importing carp (Cyprinus Carpio) vaccinated against KHV on the site level prevalance of Koi herpesvirus in England and Wales":



This makes very interesting reading and just about sums the complexity of vaccinated fish and the risks associated with placing them in our waters.


Richard

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To join ECHO

'Tis better to have hooked and lost, than never to have hooked at all'

Interesting read...

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Just Enjoyment.

No...

To be honest Richard, theres only one way to stop the spread of desease in the carp industry, and thats to stop the movement of carp. Full stop...

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To be good at angling, you need at least one side of your fishing to be good...
And I'm real good at blanking...

As I've said in the past Martin, my personal view is very similar to yours, however, the realities of today mean there have to be controls as my views are not achievable.

Edit: In addition, for your answer to become a reality ["No" to the importation of vaccinated fish] you should support ECHO.


Richard

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To join ECHO

'Tis better to have hooked and lost, than never to have hooked at all'

If only

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Why do we even NEED carp imported in the country?

If it's just to line the pockets of greedy fishery owners then we should close the borders

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Bream me up snotty!

To be even more honest Rich, I dont care where they're from, England, France, Wales, Italy, Spain, Bulgaria, Slovakia, etc... Carp are already well distributed around the country, there is no need to keep filling lakes with carp... The idiots that decided to go for fast growth over longevity, will have a problem, thats down to short sightedness and money grabbing, thier problem...

Echo will not get my support, they do not go far enough with thier plans for my liking. The difference between Imported carp and English carp stocked into a lake, is minimal, and is basically based on our perception as anglers. English good... Imported bad... Why? Simple, because we are suprised when an English stocking wipes out all the big fish in a water, well we shouldn't be. We have learnt nothing since the early days of carping. The amount of fish deaths associated with stocking hasn't taught us a thing, and until it does, I'll stand alone, and watch as clubs throughout the land decimate thier good stocks for a quick buck...

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To be good at angling, you need at least one side of your fishing to be good...
And I'm real good at blanking...

Martin, you'll have to do better than that mister! Name me one English stocking [legal] that has brought about the decimation of a water? There may have been some, there may have been 'some' more (certainly years ago regarding SVC). These may well increase in the very near future though it is fairly logical to assume... But the threat of disease is still very much a threat from imported fish when it comes to KHV for example. Legal stockings of quality, healthy Eurocarp, from safe sources, has nurtured what we have today, why deconstructively cut off all supply routes which may decimate the industry in its entirety?

Nothing you have 'loosely' framed above would not be harnessed by ECHO, however, if you're asking on a total moritorium on carp movement (internally or from external sources) then you leave absolutely no room for contingency whatsoever. If a fishery goes 'belly up' for the most innocent of reasons, or, right through to out-and-out sabotage, are you suggesting that the fishery should just call it a day and start a paper round instead!


Richard

_________________
To join ECHO

'Tis better to have hooked and lost, than never to have hooked at all'

The Cons'... 1998 ish, by the next year, 3/4 of the colne valley was closed. Most lakes downstream had suffered fish deaths and large amounts of them. Lakes that are part of angling history, with carp that are not just part of that history, but make up most of it.

The cons' lakes, Broadwater, Harefield, Savay, Pits 2-4, Korda, Farlows, Crayfish, Horton, Church pool, Kingsmeads 1 + 2 Wraysbury 1+2, the road lake pits, all closed the year after stocking, all downstream all suffering deaths and all paniking, wondering if they had a future. Up stream, Tolpits, The old Leisure sport Ricky, Hampermill lakes, WHAS, Stockers, Harrow Waltonians, The Fisheries, And the cons big lake, all closed, again all paniking...

One stocking, for the sake of one clubs ill advised "betterment"...

A lake that has never suffered low stocks in its life as a fishery, a lake that had grown at least 2 carp, up till that point, of up to 50+ lb, with back up carp of, 3 x 40+, 13+ x 30lb + and its around 12 acres...

I've lived and fished this same valley all of my fishing life, since first picking up a rod when I was about 4. I love this valley and the lakes and carp they contain with a passion. To see the results of one bad stocking in my life is enough, if a water I'm fishing want to stock a water, they do so without my money in the future, I will leave the day they decide to stock. The list of lakes above are without a doubt, the most well know, and best (in my opinion) in the world. No other stretch of lakes has this history, this much angling versatility, and this many great carp, and by "great", I mean they are written into the very fabric of our folklore. For these carp to live out thier lives, and die in a timely fashion, stocking in the area must cease. Stocking of your water with a "bad batch", doesn't just effect your own water, it can effect many, and some of those waters are always going to be more important than the owner of your water gaining a few extra £££s through ticket sales.

Sorry, rambled a little there...

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To be good at angling, you need at least one side of your fishing to be good...
And I'm real good at blanking...

Sorry, forgot about the second part of your post.

Carp lakes being wiped out, through no fault of thier own...

Cant think of many instances of this happening, except where a stocking was involved in a water linked to the one that suffers the deaths, so getting rid of the stocking would have saved the issue anyway. But that said, the Fisheries has implemented a stock pond since the eighties, closed off from the lakes water supply, andgrow on fish from thier own stocks. Is it not possible that this is the way forward? You have a stock of carp, all of a good safe strain, ready to drop in the main lake after a reasonable time. I know all lakes don't have the space for a seperate stock pond on thier land, but resouceful people should be able to sort that out by getting a water nearby without fishing allowed. I know of one such chap that stocked loads of young carp into the lakes of an industrial estate from his lake, and they are there as ornaments until he needs them for restocking back... (though knowing the chap they may well end up elsewhere, but the idea was there).

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To be good at angling, you need at least one side of your fishing to be good...
And I'm real good at blanking...

Crackoff mate, you're clearly an educated bloke judging from your literacy, and, you clearly care about our 'heritage' fish. A breath of fresh air on both counts! I'm a little puzzled though as to why you refuse to support ECHO. You agree with what ECHO stand for but you think that they don't do enough, or go far enough. So what do you do, completely voluntarily, without flagging, in your own free time? Rome wasn't built in a day. ECHO has achieved plenty already but can achieve so much more with greater support. Go on, get your wallet out. You know you want to!

Hmmmmm...

In the words of the great Brian Clough "Rome wasn't built in a day... But I didn't have a hand in that job"

If at the outset, one of these organisations came out and said that thier end goal was to get stocking of freshwater lakes stopped and get each fishery self sufficient with regards stocks, then they would get my money tommorrow, well when I next get my dole cheque, but they wont say that, because its not thier aim. Thier aim is to cut out any stock coming from abroad, so we can get "safe" stockings from British rearers. But as highlighted above, I don't think there is such a thing as a safe stocking, regardless of where the fish are reared, hatched or netted from... Each carp within England carries different problems along with it, dependant on the water or chain of waters it comes from, it has grown with these problems and they have no effect on the fish, but if the fish is moved to another part of the country, these problems can have a bad effect on the fish already in the new water, and the problems already in that water can cause new problems for the stock fish.

I'm not anti ECHO or anti AT, I dare say they are doing great things for fishing in this country, and will continue to do great things. As with most things political, you may agree with some of thier policies, but till they come out and give the policies you really agree with, you wont join the party.

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To be good at angling, you need at least one side of your fishing to be good...
And I'm real good at blanking...