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 Post subject: sharpening hooks.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:48 pm 
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been reading jason haywards monthly write up in carpoligy about sharpening hooks by had, the pictures presented of his work on hooks that he's sharpened is amazing, hooks outta the packet look as sharp as a currant bun compared to the ones he's sharpened by hand.

i personally am quite intregied by these articals and am gonna give it a try for myself, even if its at a cost of a few packs of discarded hooks until i perfect the method and types of file used to achieve the desired effect.

he uses something called a needle file which is obtained from a specialist jewellers supply shops, they need to have flat sides and you require the grade of the filing to be "CUT 4". the swiss made files are the ones to lookout for,

anyone tried this or still uses self sharpened hooks still?
if so what have you findings been?

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 Post subject: sharp hooks
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:58 pm 
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In my opinion there is so much crap talked about how sharp hooks should be. I feel if a hook can penetrate my skin and go in me then it sure is sharp enough to penetrate a fishes mouth.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:07 pm 
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here are the type of file used,

http://www.kassoy.com/benchtools/files01.html

not saying that these are the premium grade files but just here for refrence use. :D


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 Post subject: Re: sharp hooks
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:18 pm 
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johnhere wrote:
In my opinion there is so much crap talked about how sharp hooks should be. I feel if a hook can penetrate my skin and go in me then it sure is sharp enough to penetrate a fishes mouth.



answer me one question john,

- is there any reason why a sharper hook is not worth using?

my answer would be NO.
i believe anything is worth a try and if it puts more fish on my mat then i'm prepared to try it out.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:59 pm 
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But surly this depends on how you test how sharp the hook is in the first place and how do to tell 1 hook is sharper than another?
As I said if a hook can penetrate my skin then its sharp and how would I be able to tell it was sharper?
I could test it say using a blade of grass. To tell I would need to see how much pressure is needed to penetrate it. Think that would take quite a bit of setting up lol

But no, if you want to sharpen your hooks then thats fine but I would like to know how to tell they are sharper.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:14 pm 
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i suppose under a magnifying scope you could get a close look at the point and see it for yourself? just a thought not sure if you could tell.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:21 pm 
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join i tell you how you can tell there sharper mate, purely by looking at the point, go out and get this months edition and see the results possible,

http://www.carpology.net/current-issue.php

see for yourself john, they are clearly sharp as f**k mate, if your happy making do with what you've got john then fair play to ya, however i'm always looking for that "edge" to keep carp visiting my net.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:33 pm 
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I used to sharpen all hooks in the 70's (Au Lion D'hor) because they were not much use straight from the packet.. and usually went for a wedge shaped point. Mind you, that was before the chemically etched points (mistakenly reffered to as chemically sharpened).
I don't think it is possible to buy a bad or blunt hook now...but this is certainly food for thought. I still touch up a hook occassionally now with a simple sharpening stone if circumstances dictate, but will always change it later.
George Sharman has a fascinating chapter in his book "Carp and the Carp Angler" about hooks...and his own design of reverse barb very enlightening. His bench tests on hooks,line or anything else are scientific and comprehensive...George tested some inexpensive flourocarbon co-polymer line for me about 15 years ago and he could't fault it. If it passed his stringent tests it was good enough for me...and I still use it to this day for hook-links (and main line sometimes) it is half the price or less of similar branded lines.
Worth reading if you can obtain a copy of his book.
At present I am experimenting with the Fox Armo's had a few fish on them too.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:30 pm 
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Chemically etched points (cheers Dr! :wink: ) on modern hooks would be sharper than anything a hand tool could provide...

As for blunt hooks I'm sure Keebs will have a bit to add that may give you a tried and tested slant on why BLUNT hooks are sometimes better!!! 8O

Here's an old thread on the subject (click here), it makes interesting reading...


Richard 8)

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:45 pm 
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I regularly sharpen my hooks with a sharpening stone. If the hook has no burs and goes in my skin, that'll do me.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:13 pm 
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i've used needle files for a couple of years to keep the point sticky sharp.
i check and sharpen when needed.has this put extra fish on the bank,i don't it...

Dr Bleep,don't know where you get yours hooks but my packets always have at least a couple blunt in there.

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:41 pm 
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Richard wrote:
Chemically etched points (cheers Dr! :wink: ) on modern hooks would be sharper than anything a hand tool could provide...


if this is true why would anyone want to sharpen hooks not just use a new fresh 1 out of the pack?

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:42 pm 
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so what do you do with a good hook thats just blunt,i sharpen them.

edit>at £2/3 a packet thats a lot of wasted money :wink:

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:44 pm 
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Richard wrote:
Chemically etched points (cheers Dr! :wink: ) on modern hooks would be sharper than anything a hand tool could provide...


stealthystalker wrote:
... if this is true why would anyone want to sharpen hooks not just use a new fresh 1 out of the pack?


Your guess is as good as mine stalky, as good as mine...


Richard :wink:

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:46 pm 
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if the hooks are sharp outta the packet why not take 2-3 minutes of your time to make them sharper? does it hurt?


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:58 pm 
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carpcruncher wrote:
if the hooks are sharp outta the packet why not take 2-3 minutes of your time to make them sharper? does it hurt?


If you take a hand file to a good hook from a packet you'll do more harm than good! They are nano-sharp already! :wink:

Years ago when hooks were moulded in the 'old fashioned sense' it was always worth filing them a tad just to finish off any burrs etc. These days the points are so sharp and fine you will probably turn the point with a hand file.


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:08 pm 
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The problem with modern hooks is that they are too sharp and the points aren't strong enough. A hand sharpened hook is perfectly good enough to fish with.

I'd rather have a slightly blunt, hard sharpened hook as opposed to a chemically sharpened hook that can easily turn the point over. Especially on a gravel pit


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:11 pm 
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i personally only file the hooks i feel are blunt,the couple of blunts out of the packet i always seem to get :? Im trying to achive a sticky sharpness

cc,as richard said you won't get them shaper with a file,try getting hold of a jewellers eye piece..then file one out the packet,then examine both for sharpness... :wink: you wont get it sharper,you'll improve a blunt hook though :wink:

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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Richard wrote:
carpcruncher wrote:
if the hooks are sharp outta the packet why not take 2-3 minutes of your time to make them sharper? does it hurt?


If you take a hand file to a good hook from a packet you'll do more harm than good! They are nano-sharp already! :wink:

Years ago when hooks were moulded in the 'old fashioned sense' it was always worth filing them a tad just to finish off any burrs etc. These days the points are so sharp and fine you will probably turn the point with a hand file.


Richard thumbsup:



have you seen the work that jason hayward is achieving? now thats nano-sharp rich mate, now i'm not saying for one minute that i'll be able to achieve the same results but i'm damn gonna try, he supposable sharpens hooks for some of his close high profile angling friends and they swear by them, if i can achieve these results with practice i'll be more than happy, the hook is the most important part of all our tackle and "IF" i can improve an already good hook with 2-3 minutes slight work then i'm more than prepared to do it mate. :)


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:15 pm 
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COS wrote:
i personally only file the hooks i feel are blunt,the couple of blunts out of the packet i always seem to get :? Im trying to achive a sticky sharpness

cc,as richard said you won't get them shaper with a file,try getting hold of a jewellers eye piece..then file one out the packet,then examine both for sharpness... :wink: you wont get it sharper,you'll improve a blunt hook though :wink:


have a look in carpoligy and see what results are possible with a hand file carl mate, you'll be suprised, i have been for the last couple of issues. 8O


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 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:17 pm 
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jamesH wrote:
I'd rather have a slightly blunt, hard sharpened hook as opposed to a chemically sharpened hook that can easily turn the point over. Especially on a gravel pit


I agree up to a point James (pardon the pun), although a beaked point hook tries to overcome the gravel bottomed scenario with an inturned point to prevent the point from turning on pebbles.

With a chemically etched hook there is no reason to try and sharpen it further, regardless of anyones personal thoughts on 'best' hook application. If you want to file hooks then buy old patterns, some of the files listed above and a jewellers eye-piece.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:31 am 
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COS wrote:
Dr Bleep,don't know where you get yours hooks but my packets always have at least a couple blunt in there.


Iv'e been using TT's for a few years now and sometimes Fang x.
Can't say I've ever found a blunt hook amongst them...and I do test every one.
I'm trying the Armo points at the moment as I was impressed by the sharpness.

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:05 pm 
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Just had a look at the Jason Hayward article. Very interesting but I wouldn't fish with his hooks. Those points look way to delicate. I'll stick to my Atomic Claws and sharpen as necessary.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:14 pm 
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it like any thing you can sharpen realy
how many of us have sat there with a stick and a pen knife and made a spear lol.. if you make the point to fine and long it will break when you try to stab ya mate, but if you make it fat and sharp it will go through his jeans and make him bleed :D

some times fine points just aint that good
if i was fishing over say silt then i think this method would be ok but over gravel id rather a strong point than and razor sharp thin 1
just use muggas and stop worring lol
might have a go with long shank insizors are these any good

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:33 pm 
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mungo,,ive had to sharpen a mugga's,but as been said not to a fine point.
The long shank incizor are good,turn nice and good hook holds..my prefered choice but i like the muggas... :wink:

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i throw the 1s that are a bit dull away but might get a file and start touching up instead of tying new rigs all the time when ive had a fish

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 Post subject: Re: sharp hooks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:56 pm 
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johnhere wrote:
In my opinion there is so much crap talked about how sharp hooks should be. I feel if a hook can penetrate my skin and go in me then it sure is sharp enough to penetrate a fishes mouth.


the way that i have always looked at it

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:03 pm 
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that doesn't always make it right

a sharp hook will catch you more fish

the best way to test imo is too run it over your nail if it scratches your nail its not sharp enough it has to dig in the minute it touches

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:06 pm 
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mungo wrote:
that doesn't always make it right

a sharp hook will catch you more fish

the best way to test imo is too run it over your nail if it scratches your nail its not sharp enough it has to dig in the minute it touches


yes mate i agree. spoton:


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:57 am 
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The chemically sharpened hooks on the whole are now also teflon coated which protect the steel from rusting. The rusting will blunt the hook. So if we all start sharpening our hooks we are therefore taking off this protective coating and exsposing the bare metal. Now some might say that the hooks wont go rusty after a short period of time in a lake, which I can understand. However some lake water can be very acidic in their nature and as such I would not be happy to put a bare metal hook into this and leave it out there for any lenght of time .
If the hooks are sharp you can feel them digging into you skin, However if they dont feel sharp change it for a new one.

Regards

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Last edited by Smartcarper on Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:14 am 
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Jesus christ lads.....you all saving up to die?? 8O

How much is a hook? It surely cant be a money thing?

You've spent hundreds and thousands on tackle and bait and the one single item that costs pennies amongst it all... that is the only actaull point of cotact with the fish and your willing to chance it 8O

Cant be a time thing either? bet I can tie a rig in the same time a hook can be sharpened properly


One fish one hook one rig. Have a fish ...new rig end of. Call it a confidence rig if you like!!

You suprise me lads...and I mean that in a genuine way


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:23 am 
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cc mate i'm just thinking about giving it a go just to maximize my chances pal, if doesn't work then so be it. :D


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:37 am 
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:D No worries mate.....Ive been lucky if you like over the last ten years I've fished waters that have put me close to 4 of probably the most succesful anglers in the sport and they have one thing in common,

Every time I've seen one of them land a fish they tie on a new rig.In one of them's case complete new end tackle.When the fish goes in the net he just bites through the line forgets the rod and deals with the fish....good for safety too.

I've read many threads about the top boys having and edge and this and that ....in my experience this is one that is so obvious but most take for granted :wink:


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:45 am 
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i intend to fish my rods 50/50 and compare degrading of the sharpened hooks and also fish caught, little experiment and hopefully along the way i may put another fish or two on my mat cc.

if there's no improvement i aint lost anything apart from the £8 for the file mate. lol

:D :D :D


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:48 am 
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:D :D :D
If jason haywood can sharpen hooks better than them newish fox hooks(damn, ive forgotten the name ov em), well, he must be bloody good. as 4 myself, being the lazy git that i am, well i just change them when needed.... :D :D


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northernrob wrote:
:D :D :D
If jason haywood can sharpen hooks better than them newish fox hooks(damn, ive forgotten the name ov em), well, he must be bloody good. as 4 myself, being the lazy git that i am, well i just change them when needed.... :D :D


arma points rob. :D


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Just hope you dont lose that first 40 whilst experimenting 8O 8 quid buys plenty of hooks mate :wink:


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:D
Cheers carpcruncher, i think i left my thick brain else where(even though i got a box ov those hooks right in front ov me) :oops: :oops: :oops:


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:25 am 
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CAPTAIN_CAVEMAN wrote:
Just hope you dont lose that first 40 whilst experimenting 8O 8 quid buys plenty of hooks mate :wink:



:oops: :oops: me too mate :oops: :oops:


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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:42 am 
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DrBleep wrote:
George Sharman has a fascinating chapter in his book "Carp and the Carp Angler" about hooks...and his own design of reverse barb very enlightening. .


I recall that also being mentioned in either a book produced by Mustad, which was basically a history of the firm (anorak alert) and/or a book on fly fishing for bonefish by Lefty Kreh. The issue being leaving a wider gape and less restricton for penetration, the downside being the barb is 'unprotected' by the inner curve.
A bit lost in the mists of time now as none of the books are readily available to me right now but I thought it was an interesting concept and I would give it a go should they be available.
Perhaps they're not available because they added nothing of value.
I think Partridge offered the outbarb style at one time.
It's late so place my mumbling into context......


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